One important fighter aircraft performance parameter, for close range air combat, is turn rate [°/s]. I will be comparing the maximum sustained & instantaneous turning ability of the MiG-23, with that of other contemporary fighters.
1▪Timeline
To identify the fighters contemporary with the MiG-23, and understand how they rank chronologically, I've made a list of "first flight dates". Keep in mind that, "first flight" date does not equate to "service entry" date.
For example, the Mirage F1 first flew in December 1966, but entered service in May 1973 (first squadron delivery). For the Mirage 2000, these are March 1978 & July 1984 respectively. So quite some time can elapse between the two events.
2▪Primary sources
The only easily available, detailed primary source for MiG-23 flight performance information is "Практическая аэродинамика самолетов МиГ-23МЛ и МиГ-23УБ" (Practical Aerodynamics for MiG-23ML & MiG-23UB). No publishing date is given, but we have a few clues:
So "Practical Aerodynamics for MiG-23ML & MiG-23UB" is applicable to export MiG-23ML, those delivered to Czechoslovakia, the GDR, Bulgaria, Syria & Iraq in 1981-84 (and Soviet second hand aircraft delivered to Cuba, Angola, North Korea & Ethiopia in the mid-late 80s).
But the performance data can also be applied to export MiG-23MLD (delivered to Libya and Bulgaria in 1984-85), and domestic Soviet VVS/PVO MiG-23ML/P aircraft, since they are identical in engine and aerodynamics (almost identical in weight too).
3▪Weights
"Practical Aerodynamics for MiG-23ML & MiG-23UB" doesn't explicitly state the empty weight of the aircraft, but knowing the take-off weight of various configurations, and subtracting the weight of each component (pilot, fuel, ammo, external stores) I reach...
...an estimated empty weight of 10230 kg for the MiG-23ML, which matches that found in some aviation books. Doing the same for the MiG-23UB, I get 10945 kg. And using a Polish MiG-23MF load-out table, I get 10860 kg.
⚠️These values will be used to the calculate combat weights.
Other online sources give the following empty weights:
⚠️All values are in International Standard Atmosphere (ISA) conditions: t=15 °C, ρ=1.225 kg/m³, p=101325 Pa, a=340.294 m/s at H=0 m.
4▪Fuels
Calculating combat weights implies knowing the internal fuel weight by choosing an adequate fuel grade & density (volume being known).
5▪MiG-23ML vs. MiG-23MF vs. MiG-23UB
Before comparing the MiG-23 with other fighters, we first must compare the major MiG-23 fighter versions against each other.
Maximum sustained turn rates will be calculated using the "Mach (or IAS) vs. sustained turn load factor" curves from the source documents:
[1] - Practical Aerodynamics for MiG-23ML&UB.
[2] - MiG-23UB flight instruction, 1977 (rev.1982).
[3] - MiG-23MF flight instructions, 1981.
Worth remembering a few basic stats about the various MiG-23s fighter versions:
It's clear that the MiG-23ML has a better maximum sustained turn rate that the others, although, it's only 1.34 °/s better than the MiG-23MF. In practice, even with this apparently small difference in turn rate, gave it a usable advantage in manoeuvrability over the MiG-23MF.
Here's what a former Cuban MiG-23 maintenance engineer had to say:
Keep in mind that all of the values that I provide here will have some margin of error. For example, I calculated the turn rate based on the graphs in the manual, whereas the text in the manual gives 13.33 °/s, rather than 13.60 °/s. Diferences might be due even to rounding.
6▪MiG-23ML in detail
Now that we've identified the MiG-23ML as the most promising among the three variants, it's time to get to know its operating limits in detail.
7▪Western pilots about the MiG-23
Before looking at the turn rate numbers, I think it's worth including some impressions from Western pilots, comparing the MiG-23 with other aircraft that they've flown.
Pilot Nr. 1: Ted Drake
Pilot Nr. 2: Ben Lambeth
It's not the first time the MiG-23 has been compared to the F-105. From "America’s Secret MiG Squadron: The Red Eagles of Project CONSTANT PEG" by Gaillard R. Peck Jr. - 2012.
Well I guess they do look the same, if you squint your eyes a bit.
Or maybe from this angle 🤔
8▪Maximum sustained turn rate
Maximum sustained turn rate, as implied, is performed at constant speed & altitude. It is highly dependant on lift/drag & thrust/drag, as well as lift/weight, but limit load factor can also play a role for some aircraft at lower altitudes.
Here are the combat configurations of the aircraft that we're going to be comparing. All turn rates will be with the engine in full afterburner.
Source documents will be specified at the end of the thread.
MiG-23▪F-104▪MiG-21▪F-5▪Kfir
The MiG-23ML (χ=45°) can barely turn with the F-104G. Surprise! But it can outturn the Kfir C7 & MiG-21BIS (although it may be able turn the tables at sea level). F-5E can outturn them all.
ЧР: emergency afterburner, used between H= 0 to 4 km.
So we've just started, and the MiG-23ML has already lost, to the Starfighter no less.
It's time to cheat.
The MiG-23ML flight manual only teaches you to fly with the wings swept at χ=16°/45°/72°. But we also know that pilots from various air forces found a χ=30-35° sweep setting to be preferable for turning performance. For example, Cuban MiG-23ML pilot, Eduardo González Sarría.
Czech pilot, Josef Miler found the 30° position good too: "I found that the airplane flies much better at 30°, & that the aerobatics are more pleasant [...] & felt rock solid in the air."
Here he's puting it through its paces at České Budějovice (elevation 432m), 18 June 1994.
The reason for this is quite simple, increasing aspect ratio & reducing wing sweep, improves lift-drag. For example the maximum CL/CD at various wing sweeps for the MiG-23 are:
χ = 16° => CL/CD≈12.1
χ = 45° => CL/CD≈10.0
χ = 45° => CL/CD≈8.3
χ = 72° => CL/CD≈6.4
MiG-23▪MiG-23▪MiG-23▪MiG-23
Now if we look at the turn rates, it's immediately clear that the χ=33° setting gives large improvements throughout the altitude range.
The χ=16° setting looks even better, except that it runs into its load factor limit (n=6.50) at the lower altitudes. Between H=10000-15000 ft, the limiting parameter becomes the Mach number (M=0.80). With χ=33°, you're free up to n=8.0-8.5 and M=1.50
MiG-23 turn rate🧵
One important fighter aircraft performance parameter, for close range air combat, is turn rate [°/s]. I will be comparing the maximum sustained & instantaneous turning ability of the MiG-23, with that of other contemporary fighters.1▪Timeline
To identify the fighters contemporary with the MiG-23, and understand how they rank chronologically, I've made a list of "first flight dates". Keep in mind that, "first flight" date does not equate to "service entry" date.For example, the Mirage F1 first flew in December 1966, but entered service in May 1973 (first squadron delivery). For the Mirage 2000, these are March 1978 & July 1984 respectively. So quite some time can elapse between the two events.2▪Primary sources
The only easily available, detailed primary source for MiG-23 flight performance information is "Практическая аэродинамика самолетов МиГ-23МЛ и МиГ-23УБ" (Practical Aerodynamics for MiG-23ML & MiG-23UB). No publishing date is given, but we have a few clues:So "Practical Aerodynamics for MiG-23ML & MiG-23UB" is applicable to export MiG-23ML, those delivered to Czechoslovakia, the GDR, Bulgaria, Syria & Iraq in 1981-84 (and Soviet second hand aircraft delivered to Cuba, Angola, North Korea & Ethiopia in the mid-late 80s).But the performance data can also be applied to export MiG-23MLD (delivered to Libya and Bulgaria in 1984-85), and domestic Soviet VVS/PVO MiG-23ML/P aircraft, since they are identical in engine and aerodynamics (almost identical in weight too).3▪Weights
"Practical Aerodynamics for MiG-23ML & MiG-23UB" doesn't explicitly state the empty weight of the aircraft, but knowing the take-off weight of various configurations, and subtracting the weight of each component (pilot, fuel, ammo, external stores) I reach......an estimated empty weight of 10230 kg for the MiG-23ML, which matches that found in some aviation books. Doing the same for the MiG-23UB, I get 10945 kg. And using a Polish MiG-23MF load-out table, I get 10860 kg.
⚠️These values will be used to the calculate combat weights.Other online sources give the following empty weights:
▪10155 kg,MiG-23ML (изд. 23-12), Сапфир-23МЛ
▪10310 kg, MiG-23ML (изд. 23-12), Сапфир-23МЛА
▪10150 kg, MiG-23MLD (изд. 23-22Б), Сапфир-23МЛАЭ-2
▪10215 kg, MiG-23P (изд. 23-14), Сапфир-23П⚠️All values are in International Standard Atmosphere (ISA) conditions: t=15 °C, ρ=1.225 kg/m³, p=101325 Pa, a=340.294 m/s at H=0 m.
4▪Fuels
Calculating combat weights implies knowing the internal fuel weight by choosing an adequate fuel grade & density (volume being known).5▪MiG-23ML vs. MiG-23MF vs. MiG-23UB
Before comparing the MiG-23 with other fighters, we first must compare the major MiG-23 fighter versions against each other.Maximum sustained turn rates will be calculated using the "Mach (or IAS) vs. sustained turn load factor" curves from the source documents:
[1] - Practical Aerodynamics for MiG-23ML&UB.
[2] - MiG-23UB flight instruction, 1977 (rev.1982).
[3] - MiG-23MF flight instructions, 1981.Worth remembering a few basic stats about the various MiG-23s fighter versions:It's clear that the MiG-23ML has a better maximum sustained turn rate that the others, although, it's only 1.34 °/s better than the MiG-23MF. In practice, even with this apparently small difference in turn rate, gave it a usable advantage in manoeuvrability over the MiG-23MF.Here's what a former Cuban MiG-23 maintenance engineer had to say:Keep in mind that all of the values that I provide here will have some margin of error. For example, I calculated the turn rate based on the graphs in the manual, whereas the text in the manual gives 13.33 °/s, rather than 13.60 °/s. Diferences might be due even to rounding.6▪MiG-23ML in detail
Now that we've identified the MiG-23ML as the most promising among the three variants, it's time to get to know its operating limits in detail.7▪Western pilots about the MiG-23
Before looking at the turn rate numbers, I think it's worth including some impressions from Western pilots, comparing the MiG-23 with other aircraft that they've flown.
Pilot Nr. 1: Ted DrakePilot Nr. 2: Ben LambethIt's not the first time the MiG-23 has been compared to the F-105. From "America’s Secret MiG Squadron: The Red Eagles of Project CONSTANT PEG" by Gaillard R. Peck Jr. - 2012.Well I guess they do look the same, if you squint your eyes a bit.Or maybe from this angle 🤔8▪Maximum sustained turn rate
Maximum sustained turn rate, as implied, is performed at constant speed & altitude. It is highly dependant on lift/drag & thrust/drag, as well as lift/weight, but limit load factor can also play a role for some aircraft at lower altitudes.Here are the combat configurations of the aircraft that we're going to be comparing. All turn rates will be with the engine in full afterburner.
Source documents will be specified at the end of the thread.MiG-23▪F-104▪MiG-21▪F-5▪Kfir
The MiG-23ML (χ=45°) can barely turn with the F-104G. Surprise! But it can outturn the Kfir C7 & MiG-21BIS (although it may be able turn the tables at sea level). F-5E can outturn them all.
ЧР: emergency afterburner, used between H= 0 to 4 km.So we've just started, and the MiG-23ML has already lost, to the Starfighter no less.
It's time to cheat.The MiG-23ML flight manual only teaches you to fly with the wings swept at χ=16°/45°/72°. But we also know that pilots from various air forces found a χ=30-35° sweep setting to be preferable for turning performance. For example, Cuban MiG-23ML pilot, Eduardo González Sarría.Czech pilot, Josef Miler found the 30° position good too: "I found that the airplane flies much better at 30°, & that the aerobatics are more pleasant [...] & felt rock solid in the air."
Here he's puting it through its paces at České Budějovice (elevation 432m), 18 June 1994.The reason for this is quite simple, increasing aspect ratio & reducing wing sweep, improves lift-drag. For example the maximum CL/CD at various wing sweeps for the MiG-23 are:
χ = 16° => CL/CD≈12.1
χ = 45° => CL/CD≈10.0
χ = 45° => CL/CD≈8.3
χ = 72° => CL/CD≈6.4MiG-23▪MiG-23▪MiG-23▪MiG-23
Now if we look at the turn rates, it's immediately clear that the χ=33° setting gives large improvements throughout the altitude range.The χ=16° setting looks even better, except that it runs into its load factor limit (n=6.50) at the lower altitudes. Between H=10000-15000 ft, the limiting parameter becomes the Mach number (M=0.80). With χ=33°, you're free up to n=8.0-8.5 and M=1.50
yes
MiG-23 turn rate🧵
One important fighter aircraft performance parameter, for close range air combat, is turn rate [°/s]. I will be comparing the maximum sustained & instantaneous turning ability of the MiG-23, with that of other contemporary fighters. ... 1▪Timeline
To identify the fighters contemporary with the MiG-23, and understand how they rank chronologically, I've made a list of "first flight dates". Keep in mind that, "first flight" date does not equate to "service entry" date. ... For example, the Mirage F1 first flew in December 1966, but entered service in May 1973 (first squadron delivery). For the Mirage 2000, these are March 1978 & July 1984 respectively. So quite some time can elapse between the two events. ... 2▪Primary sources
The only easily available, detailed primary source for MiG-23 flight performance information is "Практическая аэродинамика самолетов МиГ-23МЛ и МиГ-23УБ" (Practical Aerodynamics for MiG-23ML & MiG-23UB). No publishing date is given, but we have a few clues: ... So "Practical Aerodynamics for MiG-23ML & MiG-23UB" is applicable to export MiG-23ML, those delivered to Czechoslovakia, the GDR, Bulgaria, Syria & Iraq in 1981-84 (and Soviet second hand aircraft delivered to Cuba, Angola, North Korea & Ethiopia in the mid-late 80s). ... But the performance data can also be applied to export MiG-23MLD (delivered to Libya and Bulgaria in 1984-85), and domestic Soviet VVS/PVO MiG-23ML/P aircraft, since they are identical in engine and aerodynamics (almost identical in weight too). ... 3▪Weights
"Practical Aerodynamics for MiG-23ML & MiG-23UB" doesn't explicitly state the empty weight of the aircraft, but knowing the take-off weight of various configurations, and subtracting the weight of each component (pilot, fuel, ammo, external stores) I reach... ... ...an estimated empty weight of 10230 kg for the MiG-23ML, which matches that found in some aviation books. Doing the same for the MiG-23UB, I get 10945 kg. And using a Polish MiG-23MF load-out table, I get 10860 kg.
️These values will be used to the calculate combat weights. ... Other online sources give the following empty weights:
▪10155 kg,MiG-23ML (изд. 23-12), Сапфир-23МЛ
▪10310 kg, MiG-23ML (изд. 23-12), Сапфир-23МЛА
▪10150 kg, MiG-23MLD (изд. 23-22Б), Сапфир-23МЛАЭ-2
▪10215 kg, MiG-23P (изд. 23-14), Сапфир-23П ... ️All values are in International Standard Atmosphere (ISA) conditions: t=15 °C, ρ=1.225 kg/m³, p=101325 Pa, a=340.294 m/s at H=0 m.
4▪Fuels
Calculating combat weights implies knowing the internal fuel weight by choosing an adequate fuel grade & density (volume being known). ... 5▪MiG-23ML vs. MiG-23MF vs. MiG-23UB
Before comparing the MiG-23 with other fighters, we first must compare the major MiG-23 fighter versions against each other. ... Maximum sustained turn rates will be calculated using the "Mach (or IAS) vs. sustained turn load factor" curves from the source documents:
[1] - Practical Aerodynamics for MiG-23ML&UB.
[2] - MiG-23UB flight instruction, 1977 (rev.1982).
[3] - MiG-23MF flight instructions, 1981. ... Worth remembering a few basic stats about the various MiG-23s fighter versions: ... It's clear that the MiG-23ML has a better maximum sustained turn rate that the others, although, it's only 1.34 °/s better than the MiG-23MF. In practice, even with this apparently small difference in turn rate, gave it a usable advantage in manoeuvrability over the MiG-23MF. ... Here's what a former Cuban MiG-23 maintenance engineer had to say: ... Keep in mind that all of the values that I provide here will have some margin of error. For example, I calculated the turn rate based on the graphs in the manual, whereas the text in the manual gives 13.33 °/s, rather than 13.60 °/s. Diferences might be due even to rounding. ... 6▪MiG-23ML in detail
Now that we've identified the MiG-23ML as the most promising among the three variants, it's time to get to know its operating limits in detail. ... 7▪Western pilots about the MiG-23
Before looking at the turn rate numbers, I think it's worth including some impressions from Western pilots, comparing the MiG-23 with other aircraft that they've flown.
Pilot Nr. 1: Ted Drake ... Pilot Nr. 2: Ben Lambeth ... It's not the first time the MiG-23 has been compared to the F-105. From "America’s Secret MiG Squadron: The Red Eagles of Project CONSTANT PEG" by Gaillard R. Peck Jr. - 2012. ... Well I guess they do look the same, if you squint your eyes a bit. ... Or maybe from this angle 🤔 ... 8▪Maximum sustained turn rate
Maximum sustained turn rate, as implied, is performed at constant speed & altitude. It is highly dependant on lift/drag & thrust/drag, as well as lift/weight, but limit load factor can also play a role for some aircraft at lower altitudes. ... Here are the combat configurations of the aircraft that we're going to be comparing. All turn rates will be with the engine in full afterburner.
Source documents will be specified at the end of the thread. ... MiG-23▪F-104▪MiG-21▪F-5▪Kfir
The MiG-23ML (χ=45°) can barely turn with the F-104G. Surprise! But it can outturn the Kfir C7 & MiG-21BIS (although it may be able turn the tables at sea level). F-5E can outturn them all.
ЧР: emergency afterburner, used between H= 0 to 4 km. ... So we've just started, and the MiG-23ML has already lost, to the Starfighter no less.
It's time to cheat. ... The MiG-23ML flight manual only teaches you to fly with the wings swept at χ=16°/45°/72°. But we also know that pilots from various air forces found a χ=30-35° sweep setting to be preferable for turning performance. For example, Cuban MiG-23ML pilot, Eduardo González Sarría. ... Czech pilot, Josef Miler found the 30° position good too: "I found that the airplane flies much better at 30°, & that the aerobatics are more pleasant [...] & felt rock solid in the air."
Here he's puting it through its paces at České Budějovice (elevation 432m), 18 June 1994. ... The reason for this is quite simple, increasing aspect ratio & reducing wing sweep, improves lift-drag. For example the maximum CL/CD at various wing sweeps for the MiG-23 are:
χ = 16° => CL/CD≈12.1
χ = 45° => CL/CD≈10.0
χ = 45° => CL/CD≈8.3
χ = 72° => CL/CD≈6.4 ... MiG-23▪MiG-23▪MiG-23▪MiG-23
Now if we look at the turn rates, it's immediately clear that the χ=33° setting gives large improvements throughout the altitude range. ... The χ=16° setting looks even better, except that it runs into its load factor limit (n=6.50) at the lower altitudes. Between H=10000-15000 ft, the limiting parameter becomes the Mach number (M=0.80). With χ=33°, you're free up to n=8.0-8.5 and M=1.50
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